Lament Options

[RobertFlorey]

Lament

Dried rose blossom floats on pond.
Heartbroken girl, arm still outstretched.
Tear drop fall.

This post has been edited by RobertFlorey: Oct 18 2008, 07:28 PM

[Word Burn]

Well this isn't proper haiku form, but it does paint a nice little picture.

[SkaaDee]

yeah

nice picture
with few strokes.

I think you could even nix
Heartbroken
and still have the reader.

[Davidf]

RobertFlorey,
Yes, and I don't think you need "dried" either: Rose blossoim floats on pond/girl's arm still outsrtreched/tear drop falls works nicer. (note the 's added to girl and the s added to fall, which make it grammatically correct).
~Davidf

[RobertFlorey]

Well this isn't proper haiku form, but it does paint a nice little picture.

Well, in my reading on haiku, it turns out that the Japanese language does not
contain syllables at all. They use an entirely different system.

And there seems to be wide divergence in the definition of a 'proper' haiku.

I thank you for saying that the imagery was nice. I really appreciate that.

What are the rules you follow?

[RobertFlorey]

yeah

nice picture
with few strokes.

I think you could even nix
Heartbroken
and still have the reader.

Thank you, SkaaDee!

Let's see...

Dried rose blossom floats on pond
Girl, arm still outstretched
Tear drop fall.

Yeah! I think you're right. Thanks!!!!

[RobertFlorey]

RobertFlorey,
Yes, and I don't think you need "dried" either: Rose blossoim floats on pond/girl's arm still outsrtreched/tear drop falls works nicer. (note the 's added to girl and the s added to fall, which make it grammatically correct).
~Davidf

Let me see how that looks...

Rose blossom floats on pond
girl's arm still outstretched
tear drop falls.

Thank you.

I do agree that I don't need 'heartbroken'

But I think I do need 'dried'.

It's dried because the rose blossom is a memento of something in the past.
She has had closure for loss of something precious to her, because it has died.
If the blossom is fresh, then there is no time signature even suggested.

Then, as to 'tear drop fall' that's a triple entendre.

Of course, not everyone is going to get all three, but at least they're there.
The first is that a tear drop falls.
The second is that the rose blossom is dried because it was given to her in the
spring and now it is fall, which captures the usual demand for a season to be
mentioned.
The third is that if you think of a Japanese speaking person speaking in English
but who is not expert at it, one might well hear something like, "tear drop fall."

I experimented with several formulations of that last line.

When I read it to my wife, the first thing she said was that it made her think that
the story was transpiring in Japan.

So, I think I want to keep it for the meantime.

I don't beg people for help, but if you happen to think of a way in which I could
get all that but in a better way, I'd be very grateful...

[RobertFlorey]

RobertFlorey,
Yes, and I don't think you need "dried" either: Rose blossoim floats on pond/girl's arm still outsrtreched/tear drop falls works nicer. (note the 's added to girl and the s added to fall, which make it grammatically correct).
~Davidf

Oh, I'm sorry. I see I missed addressing something in your critique.

Dried rose blossom floats on pond.
Girl, arm still outstretched.
Tear drop fall.

I addressed the 'dried', it's to emphasize that time has passed.
I addressed the complications of the triple entendre on 'fall'.

I forgot the

Girl's arm still outstretched.

Now, let me tell you why I kept that form, while junking 'heartbroken', which I
agree is not necessary.

I want first to focus, but only fleetingly, on the girl. I want to make a snapshot
of her, but I want it to be transitory. Look at the girl!

Then, I want to focus on two things, her arm, and then that it is still outstretched.

This shows the necessary motion, and it shows that she lingers, she's thrown away
the symbol of the loss, in a properly Japanese way, they either float flowers or
they float paper boats. But she hasn't quite let go. That comes in the last line,
in which she drops a tear.

So, the motion goes thus-- (as I intended it; I'm not saying that I was successful!),
First the rose blossom which is doing something, it's floating. Originally I had 'bobbing'.

Then, from snapshot of rose to snapshot of girl. Then I want to focus on the entailed
motion of the arm where 'still' strongly implies that she is the one who tossed the
dried rose blossom. I also thought of 'bud', but I didn't want something budding,
I wanted some committed emotional attachment, which requires the maturity of
the blossom, not the immaturity of the bud.

And then finally, the closure, in a fall season in Japan, where water meets water.

This is very nice -- I consider all of the three comments I got as being very
valuable. I hope the rest of the board is as good as you guys are!

I'd appreciate any other thoughts you might have about this one.

[Word Burn]

The typical and most-accepted format for haiku in the English language can be found in our coffee shop walkthroughs. You should check them out!

[RobertFlorey]

The typical and most-accepted format for haiku in the English language can be found in our coffee shop walkthroughs. You should check them out!

Oh! Save me from the poetry gods!

The Japanese language is so different from English.
And is the English sonnet form the sonnet form?

There is disagreement even in Japan as to what constitutes a true haiku.

How is it easier to define in such a different language environment.

But thanks. I know you're being helpful.

[seraph]

I think this is lovely.

I am curious as to whether you feel your poem is a haiku or rather a minimalist one?

Do you think that haikus cannot exist in English?

I am not being critical, just curious.

elise

[RobertFlorey]

I think this is lovely.

I am curious as to whether you feel your poem is a haiku or rather a minimalist one?

Do you think that haikus cannot exist in English?

I am not being critical, just curious.

elise

First, let me introduce myself just a little bit. I am a 63, nearly 64 year old afficianado
of both prose and poetry. I know all sorts of theories about poetry, all of which I
take with a trainload of salt.

I am a periodically compulsive writer who does not pretend to be a poet.

I had a high school teacher who taught teaching at U.C.L.A.

He said to us once, "Those who can, do. Those who can't do, teach.
And those who cannot teach, teach teachers to teach."

I laughed, but I also took his words seriously.

I don't pretend to be a poet.

No, I don't think my piece is minimalist.

The interesting thing about minimalism, is that it is so seldom economical.

I think minimalists, not all of them, tend to indulge themselves in beautiful
juxtapositions of words and phrases aimed to always hide what is just
around the corner, so that the reader is constantly being made wide-eyed
surprised.

I think that is a magnificent indulgence.

I think that my piece qualifies for haiku.

It mentions a season, in a double-entendre.
It focuses into a moment in time, but implies
what came before and what comes after.
It uses imagery to paint a mental portrait.
It is especially terse, but each word does something useful.
It is related to nature and human nature.

The basic rule for me, to decide whether or not a poem is a haiku is this:

Does it feel like a haiku?

You must know that all art is a matter of taste.

And all art is dynamic. One knows it when one encounters it, but one person's
art is another person's junk pile.

And no, I don't think that one can write Japanese Haiku in English.

But one can write English Haiku in English.

And thank you so much for saying that my piece is lovely!!!!!

[seraph]

Yes, I agree that one can certainly write an English haiku in English. I was quite curious as to what your philosophy was. It is truly a pleasure to meet you. I am off to read your most recent haiku!

elise

[RobertFlorey]

Yes, I agree that one can certainly write an English haiku in English. I was quite curious as to what your philosophy was. It is truly a pleasure to meet you. I am off to read your most recent haiku!

elise

If I remember what in heck I put up, even I don't think it's a haiku.

It was really commentary.

Ah yes, it was a pun on the word 'just'.

Often it's used as a syllable filler for those who can't or won't find a better word.

And I'm seeing a fair amout of critiques that use the words, 'cliche' or 'trite'.

So, I thought I'd make an example where the word 'just' is trite in the first
two lines but not trite in the third.

Leaving one to wonder, I hope, if the first two 'cliche' uses really were cliche!

My sense of humor, I'm afraid, may leave something to be desired...

[thalion]

The language is as in a haiku, but the form of the poem is a little too long. It should be more concise to be a proper haiku.

But the image is really nice, and you show it just as a haiku should do - showing not telling.

Nice little poem.

BTW, David's advice is really good.

[Sharon K]

Lament

Dried rose blossom floats on pond.
Heartbroken girl, arm still outstretched.
Tear drop fall.

Thanks you for the post.
Hi guys, Im a newbie. Nice to join this forum.